Curse

id0l · Sep 30, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

You may want to check that math

Eviscerate - 7 addren max 40 dmg
Cleave - 4 addren max 30 dmg

So in the space of time that you can do 4 Ev's, you can do 7 Cl's

4*40 = 160
7*30 = 210

the only advantage that Cl has is the deep wound, which lowers max hp by 20% or 100, whichever is lower for a max of 20 seconds.

Looks to me like they are pretty much the same now. The 20 seconds will be ending right around the same time you get that 50 extra dmg from cleave. Which makes them virtually identical in where your target ends up healthwise.

You haven't taken into account the actual spammability of cleave. At 4 adrenaline (much lower than other adrenal-based axe attacks), it hurts more than helps -BECAUSE- of it's innate spammability (regarding adrenaline skills). Remember, every time you spam it...it costs you one adrenaline strike. So if you have another adrenal skill that requires, say, 8 adrenaline - and you spam cleave when it comes up - you have to wait till you have gained 10 adrenaline before you can use this other skill.

It comes down to this.

Eviscerate is for Axe Spikers.
Cleave is for Axe users who don't rely on other adrenal skills.

Cleave is just too spammable. It hurts your other adrenal skills. Which screws up your damage over time. Like I said, it's great if you don't rely on other adrenal skills. That's what it's made for. But any "in the know" axe spiker will stick with Eviscerate - and justly so - because it works way better for that cause. Regardless of the damage buff to Cleave, it still hurts more than it helps when it comes to having more than just Cleave on your skillbar as your adrenaline skill.

Perhaps we will see Ensign update his little guide soon. He can go way more in-depth with it than I can, and show you actual numbers.

The New Guy · Sep 30, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

:d Bork Bork Bork!! :d

Ayashi · Sep 30, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Mmm I like the update.

Nuff said

Sanji · Sep 30, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I love patch time. Not only does it add variety to the game, it also creates a bunch of hilarious forum drama.

I am both amused inside and outside the game.

calamitykell · Sep 30, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

That new skill monitor bar is sooooo seksay.

I think overall the update is good. I don't understand the whining about Mesmers being nerfed. I think people find one thing that's good, and anything else isn't worth their time or effort.

Water! OMG yay! I may actually get back to my W/E now that all my water skills have been improved (in theory.) Good job, ANet!

Theos · Sep 30, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Great Update, I love this skill monitor thing... total love...

My mesmer is no longer "godlike" in PvE to mursaat/jades... though many may see this is bad to me its great... I should not be able to utterly destroy mursaat without breaking a sweat :P Witht he changes to pets I may just get a way with running Me/R beastmaster O_o What a great energy engine that will make

Fyre Brand · Sep 30, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

I like the updated material.

From a ranger's perspective. The beastmaster changes are great. The interupt changes are needed, but the delay after attack is going to take some figuring out. It would be nice to see an attack cooldown after use so you know when yo u can attack next.

Thankfully the PvE environment is becoming much more challenging. I like that.

IxChel · Sep 30, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Almost the same adrenelin gain, but cycles faster, better damage bonus, better average damage + range, omnidirectional...
So, why is Hundred Blades an elite?

In PvE, where the mobs are stupid enough to gather around you, Cyclone Axe is better; however in PvP, I think HB is superior. You can run up to the "first-person" in a group and start swinging -- the result is that you hit all of them. That's quite nice, IMHO.

Hundered blades:

--------
-xxx -
-xTx--
-x@x-
--------

vs Cyclone Axe

--------
--------
-xxx--
-x@x-
--------

IxChel · Sep 30, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Is upping the casting time of Balths Aura to 2 seconds really necessary? It certainly isn't spammable anymore, with a 25 energy cost. Aegis...being a skill that affects the entire team, when you're seeing health bars drop across the board and need to prop people up, a 2 second casting time isn't going to cut it.

Both of those skills are now very interruptable. Consider it a "buff" to the mesmer and ranger. Before, with a 1s cast, the only solution was to try to catch them with diversion; but now these are ripe targets. Yea!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Again, more relatively pointless buffs. The down side of Dolyak Signet, for example, is the snare not the amount of armor it provides. -75% movement speed is pretty rough for something you use upon yourself. Personally, I don't think I'd tote this bad boy around if it gave me 500 armor unless it came with an off button. Even then it would be iffy.

Perhaps in PvP it is a pointless buff; but in PvE, the Dolyak Signet was often already on my skill bar before the buff. Now it has a permanent home; IMHO, this is the single biggest pro-monk buff in the game. When I play in a PvE group, I "sprint" into the group; hit Dolyak Signet and let them aggro around me. You use Endure/Defy pain to withstand the extra beating you take before your monk plops down some serious healing on you. After I've got a serious clump; the elementalists come in and nuke like mad. The +40 armour now gives you another 5s or so to make that clump.... it's perfect. Try it.

Yamat · Sep 30, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I don't understand the Aegis nerf... a 2 second cast pretty much guarantees this is getting interrupted.

I haven't been doing much PvP lately... was Aegis overpowered?

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 30, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Aside from characters that rely on Energy Tap/Drain or Ether Feast to augment their denial builds, most players will benefit from the changes to these skills.

Here's why.

Anybody who uses Tap/Drain for energy (e.g. monks) or health knows that these skills are only useful with a considerable investment of attribute points to Inspiration. Now, it's possible to get the same amount of energy back with a lower Inspiration attribute level since the skill is adjusted by the amount of energy drained. It's easier to understand if you try it out.

For instance - my monk can have Inspiration = 8 and still pull 12 energy (net 7). Previously, it required Inspiration = 10 to draw 12 energy. This means I can drop my Inspiration to 8 now and have a whopping 20 attribute points free. Now, even having Inspiration = 4 isn't too bad - as you can pull 10 energy (net 5).

Now about the increased recharge times. I think the net effect may be to generate interest in maintaining high energy banks - (e.g. Acetic tattoos and enchanter's armor) and not to rely on Tap/Drain so much. Perhaps there may even be a new interest in high energy wands and off-hand items (even at the expense of -1 energy pip).

lord_shar · Sep 30, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by IxChel

In PvE, where the mobs are stupid enough to gather around you, Cyclone Axe is better; however in PvP, I think HB is superior. You can run up to the "first-person" in a group and start swinging -- the result is that you hit all of them. That's quite nice, IMHO.

Hundered blades:

--------
-xxx -
-xTx--
-x@x-
--------

vs Cyclone Axe

--------
--------
-xxx--
-x@x-
--------

I agree that Hundred Blades and Cyclone axe have their own benefits and disadvantages. However, HB's unique area of effect and primary target double-hit still doesn't warrant "elite" skill status. Hundred Blades can still use a small +4..+8 or similar damage boost to justify its elite label.

From what I understand now, bringing hundred blades to organized (non-PUG) PvP gets you laughed at.

twicky_kid · Sep 30, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

Aside from characters that rely on Energy Tap/Drain or Ether Feast to augment their denial builds, most players will benefit from the changes to these skills.

Here's why.

Anybody who uses Tap/Drain for energy (e.g. monks) or health knows that these skills are only useful with a considerable investment of attribute points to Inspiration. Now, it's possible to get the same amount of energy back with a lower Inspiration attribute level since the skill is adjusted by the amount of energy drained. It's easier to understand if you try it out.

For instance - my monk can have Inspiration = 8 and still pull 12 energy (net 7). Previously, it required Inspiration = 10 to draw 12 energy. This means I can drop my Inspiration to 8 now and have a whopping 20 attribute points free. Now, even having Inspiration = 4 isn't too bad - as you can pull 10 energy (net 5).

Now about the increased recharge times. I think the net effect may be to generate interest in maintaining high energy banks - (e.g. Acetic tattoos and enchanter's armor) and not to rely on Tap/Drain so much. Perhaps there may even be a new interest in high energy wands and off-hand items (even at the expense of -1 energy pip).

the biggest benifit is the gain 2 energy for each one they lose. i noticed alot of times i drained someone to empty. then its recharged and i used it i would barely get my energy back and sometimes nothing. now that they can lose 3-4 enegy and i still gain 6-8 is nice. no longer a wasted skill after i completely drain someone.

MarkyX · Oct 01, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

I don't understand the Aegis nerf... a 2 second cast pretty much guarantees this is getting interrupted.

I haven't been doing much PvP lately... was Aegis overpowered?

It was annoying. It really shut down the warriors and rangers because many people would do a 'cycle aegis', keeping them protected 24/7.

While many argue that "it can be countered", aegis was often replaced quickly with guardian quickly. As soon as guardian went down, another aegis went up.

Now monks need to really time their smiting and protection spells, instead of spamming it to make them immortal. It will also make interrupt rangers/mesmers a viable part in a build.

Theos · Oct 01, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

Aside from characters that rely on Energy Tap/Drain or Ether Feast to augment their denial builds, most players will benefit from the changes to these skills.

Here's why.

Anybody who uses Tap/Drain for energy (e.g. monks) or health knows that these skills are only useful with a considerable investment of attribute points to Inspiration. Now, it's possible to get the same amount of energy back with a lower Inspiration attribute level since the skill is adjusted by the amount of energy drained. It's easier to understand if you try it out.

For instance - my monk can have Inspiration = 8 and still pull 12 energy (net 7). Previously, it required Inspiration = 10 to draw 12 energy. This means I can drop my Inspiration to 8 now and have a whopping 20 attribute points free. Now, even having Inspiration = 4 isn't too bad - as you can pull 10 energy (net 5).

Now about the increased recharge times. I think the net effect may be to generate interest in maintaining high energy banks - (e.g. Acetic tattoos and enchanter's armor) and not to rely on Tap/Drain so much. Perhaps there may even be a new interest in high energy wands and off-hand items (even at the expense of -1 energy pip).

Edrain is no longer the superior energy manager... actually... I don't think it ever has been (except for the fact it stole energy). I will stick with my mantra and OoB for now far superior enegry managment :P

ExDeity · Oct 01, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by EndobioticChaos

Or perhaps in your case. Mesmers were already relatively underpowered for PvE. PvP isn't everything, even though the whiners seem to think it is. Since the developers seem intent on destroying anything remotely good, it's time for a game where they aren't constantly changing everything. What use is it trying to come up with a good build any more? They'll just break it tomorrow anyhow.

So go ahead, flame all you like. All you prove is your own ignorance.

Hex breaker is now COMPLETELY useless in PvE. Recharge 15 seconds?? In that time those two heretics and three gnashers will have hexed you 10 times and only one of the hexes get blocked instead of 5+. And that L28 monk boss? Now he'll have all the energy he jolly well wishes because you can't steal energy worth a damn any more.

You bring up a damn good point. All the competitive players around the world like to beat up monsters instead of each other. I mean, beating the computer never gets old. Who needs a PS3, anyway? Let's all just play Sonic the Hedgehog instead. Man, beating unintelligent AI never gets old. I feel like playing some PvE right now, as a matter of fact. I can't wait to see how the enemy intuitively gets caught being stuck on stupid, moving back and forth helplessly as I attack it over and over again. And hey, when I beat PvE, I'll go back and do it again! Playing the computer never gets old, as I said.

Damn, that final ascension mission, it's tricky, I tell ya! You totally can't use 2skills to defeat the UB3R 0M6 D0PP1364N63R!!11oneShiftEleven!1

NightOwl · Oct 01, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

This thread is for feedback...not too helpful to just bash on people who make their comments about dislike of the patch.

Numa Pompilius · Oct 01, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Haha, another PvP player who sees it as a personal insult that someone actually prefers to play PvE. <shakes head>

Anyway, Mesmers are not underpowered in PvE, they weren't before, they're certainly not now. I just did the ring of fire with my W/Mo, and I spent the whole time thinking how much easier that was with my mesmer.
Backfire for 140 damage per cast, empathy for 31 damage per hit, and echo shatter hex for 2x124 damage on all surrounding enemies - that sure beats flailing away with an axe and doing an average of 30 damage per chop.

Teh Monkeys · Oct 01, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Try playing an illusion mesmer in PvE now. Then we'll talk.

Sister Rosette · Oct 01, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I play an Illusion Me coupled with Blood Magic for Energy replenishment/
health regen/steal. Still works pretty well. You don't really need your
precious mantras....